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Post by boriblaze1 on Jun 22, 2009 15:48:27 GMT -5
Ok I agree with you on this 100% But what I don't get it that Floyd Mayweather Jr. has done the same thing. Yet you consider him best at Welter Weight. And Lineal Champion and he hasn't fought in almost 2 years. So would you say the same about Floyd Mayweather at 147! He is a great boxer, fighter very talented. But just because he might be the most recognized in the sport of boxing doesn't mean he his the best Welter Weight. Just like Ricky Hatton is not the best Junior Welter Weight! This is what my beef with Floyd and Hatton were. They haven't fought the best in there weight class but claim to be the best!
And please don't switch it up and be a hypocrite.
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Post by Paul Magno on Jun 22, 2009 16:06:41 GMT -5
Ok I agree with you on this 100% But what I don't get it that Floyd Mayweather Jr. has done the same thing. Yet you consider him best at Welter Weight. And Lineal Champion and he hasn't fought in almost 2 years. So would you say the same about Floyd Mayweather at 147! He is a great boxer, fighter very talented. But just because he might be the most recognized in the sport of boxing doesn't mean he his the best Welter Weight. Just like Ricky Hatton is not the best Junior Welter Weight! This is what my beef with Floyd and Hatton were. They haven't fought the best in there weight class but claim to be the best! And please don't switch it up and be a hypocrite. In your anti-Mayweather haze, you misunderstood me... Mayweather WAS lineal welter champ and, at one time, he was at the top of his division because he did fight the top two in his division...Not anymore...precisely for the reasons I gave about Hatton... Technically, Mayweather is still Lineal Champ at 147 until someone beats him because he beat the man who beat the man, etc...but if you look at the BTBC 147 lb. rankings, you won't see Mayweather anywhere on them and even when he does return, he won't be among the very top until he beats the top welters... Please, guys, read our rankings...I guarantee they are the very best and most accurate in the entire sport...
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Post by boriblaze1 on Jun 22, 2009 16:35:36 GMT -5
It's not anti Mayweather just the same could be said about him also. He really hasn't done anything at Welter Weight to be Lineal Champion and that belt is currently vacant.
1.Miguel Cotto 2.Shane Mosley 3.Andre Berto 4.Joshua Clottey 5.Luis Collazo
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Post by Paul Magno on Jun 22, 2009 20:54:52 GMT -5
It's not anti Mayweather just the same could be said about him also. He really hasn't done anything at Welter Weight to be Lineal Champion and that belt is currently vacant. 1.Miguel Cotto 2.Shane Mosley 3.Andre Berto 4.Joshua Clottey 5.Luis Collazo Maybe you're misunderstanding what the lineal champ is...The lineal champion is the fighter who beats the man who beat the man who beat the man...all the way down. It's not necessarily an indication of who's the best in the division... In Mayweather's case: He beat Baldomir who beat Judah who beat Spinks who beat Mayorga who beat Forrest who beat Mosley who beat De la Hoya who beat Whitaker who beat McGirt who beat Brown who beat Blocker who beat Starling etc... The lineal title is about the lineage that can be traced back through time as opposed to the titles of Cotto and Berto, which were initially awarded in some office somewhere... Many in the sport, Ring Magazine included, see the liineal Champion as the true champion...I see the lineal title as something interesting and worthy of noting, but not always an indication of the top dog in a division... Mayweather IS the lineal champion...there is no denying that, but he is not the top welter anymore...Pacquiao is the lineal 140 lb. champion, but he is not the top jr. welter...
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Post by boriblaze1 on Jun 23, 2009 5:40:17 GMT -5
Lineal Belt at 147 is vacant until Mosley and Cotto settle it in the ring. Or Mayweather fights one of the two!
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daika
Regional Champ
Posts: 175
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Post by daika on Jun 23, 2009 6:07:56 GMT -5
I doubt floyd is gona fight any top welterweights anytime soon, he hasnt done for a while so i think its fair that the title be passed on to Cotto or Mosley
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Post by Paul Magno on Jun 23, 2009 6:33:02 GMT -5
LOL..Guys, stop being silly...The Lineal Title can't be handed to another person while that fighter is still active...Mayweather may not be the top welter any longer, but he's still the lineal champ...that's a point that is beyond debate...Cotto can't be lineal champ because he never beat the man who beat the man who beat the man, etc...He simply can't be the lineal champ until he either beats Mayweather or Mayweather re-retires...I didn't make up the rules, guys...
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jadef
Regional Champ
Posts: 232
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Post by jadef on Jun 24, 2009 6:20:42 GMT -5
That just means you've both lost the plot! jadef has got this one right. Bradley hasn't been near top class yet, whereas Pacquiao clearly has. Any 140 ranking that doesn't have Pacquiao at the top isn't worth the paper it's written on. But I hear you all with your compaints about catchweight fights. If Pacquiao and Roach want Cotto at 147 because they think he's tight at the weight and there for the taking, then so be it. But beating him at 145 or whatever would be a hollow victory at best. See, you're missing the point of what rankings are supposed to represent...They shouldn't be about who has the biggest name, who has the most fans or who used to accomplish the most in the past...They should be about who is currently accomplishing the most within that division. The fact of the matter is that Pacquiao didn't beat the Ricky Hatton of 2005 who had just beaten Kostya Tszyu, he beat the Ricky Hatton who had just one victory against a relevant Jr. Welter in nearly 4 years. Hatton may have been the lineal champ, but how much did that have to do with him not fighting the best 140 pounders anymore? There is a difference between being a lineal champ and being the most accomplished in the division... I think putting someone with one win in one fight at the very top of a deep division where top fighters are actually fighting one another is indefensible...Should Pacquiao still be at the top after he fights some bogus catchweight bout and Bradley defends against Nate Campbell? Will Pacquiao still be on top after that when Pacquiao fights another catchweight bout and Bradley defends against Ricardo Torres? Maybe I'm crazy, but I think a fighter at the top of a division should actually fight in that division... This ain't a popularity contest, brothas...the biggest name isn't always the best name... Bradley's wins over Junior Witter and Kendall Holt (as well as several other lesser wins) make him the top 140 lb. fighter in the world...Pacquiao has a better overall resume throughout his career than Bradley, but within the Jr. Welterweight division, Pacquiao is simply not as accomplished as Bradley and doesn't deserve the #1 spot... I know it's impossible to happen, Pac vs. Bradley, but who do you think has the edge and take the win? based on technicality and athletesism? For me, uhmmmm for now I have no idea
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Post by Paul Magno on Jun 24, 2009 6:50:40 GMT -5
See, you're missing the point of what rankings are supposed to represent...They shouldn't be about who has the biggest name, who has the most fans or who used to accomplish the most in the past...They should be about who is currently accomplishing the most within that division. The fact of the matter is that Pacquiao didn't beat the Ricky Hatton of 2005 who had just beaten Kostya Tszyu, he beat the Ricky Hatton who had just one victory against a relevant Jr. Welter in nearly 4 years. Hatton may have been the lineal champ, but how much did that have to do with him not fighting the best 140 pounders anymore? There is a difference between being a lineal champ and being the most accomplished in the division... I think putting someone with one win in one fight at the very top of a deep division where top fighters are actually fighting one another is indefensible...Should Pacquiao still be at the top after he fights some bogus catchweight bout and Bradley defends against Nate Campbell? Will Pacquiao still be on top after that when Pacquiao fights another catchweight bout and Bradley defends against Ricardo Torres? Maybe I'm crazy, but I think a fighter at the top of a division should actually fight in that division... This ain't a popularity contest, brothas...the biggest name isn't always the best name... Bradley's wins over Junior Witter and Kendall Holt (as well as several other lesser wins) make him the top 140 lb. fighter in the world...Pacquiao has a better overall resume throughout his career than Bradley, but within the Jr. Welterweight division, Pacquiao is simply not as accomplished as Bradley and doesn't deserve the #1 spot... I know it's impossible to happen, Pac vs. Bradley, but who do you think has the edge and take the win? based on technicality and athletesism? For me, uhmmmm for now I have no idea Ain't gonna happen...Pacquiao doesn't fight African American fighters ;D
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Post by Charlie 21er on Jun 24, 2009 14:19:52 GMT -5
I know it's impossible to happen, Pac vs. Bradley, but who do you think has the edge and take the win? based on technicality and athletesism? For me, uhmmmm for now I have no idea Ain't gonna happen...Pacquiao doesn't fight African American fighters ;D Well, especially if they made a nickname about it, "The African American Destroyer" would just be racist, and we don't want that. Better stick with Mexicans.
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Post by boriblaze1 on Jun 24, 2009 15:00:30 GMT -5
What African Fighters in his weight class actually could draw a crowd??? None of them are worthy! They have no fan base , and they can't fill seats! He fought the best fighters in his weight class.
Barrea,Morales,Marquez those were the biggest names in his class.
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Post by boriblaze1 on Jun 24, 2009 15:26:39 GMT -5
Pacquiao doesn’t awe Cotto By NICK GIONGCO
Manny Pacquiao doesn’t give Miguel Cotto the creeps.
Cotto, the Puerto Rican banger on the cusp of earning the biggest paycheck of his storied career, has a rather philosophical view of the planned Nov. 14 mega match with Pacquiao.
Speaking to the Puerto Rican media, Cotto said he was not awed with the way Pacquiao toppled David Diaz, mauled Oscar De La Hoya to a bloody pulp and flattened Ricky Hatton.
"I am not impressed," Cotto said in a story that was carried by Primera Hora. "He has two arms and so do I."
Cotto is fresh from repulsing the bold challenge of Joshua Clottey almost two weeks ago and is currently on vacation mode but is raring to get back to the gym in preparation for the Pacquiao duel that should take place at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.
While Cotto suffered a nasty wound on his left eyebrow against Clottey, he revealed that the cut is healing fast and that he might start working out in three weeks time.
"The wound is almost healed," said Cotto, who declared that he can only drop to 145 lbs against Pacquiao.
Cotto claimed that they (him and Pacquiao) had both agreed that the catch weight will be 145 lbs and is keenly awaiting for the confirmation of the scheduled 12-rounder that will put Cotto’s World Boxing Organization welterweight crown on the line.
Cotto plans to set up training camp for the Pacquiao fight in Tampa, Florida.
Top Rank chief Bob Arum, who promotes both Cotto and Pacquiao, wants to finalize the deal by the end of the month.
While the catch weight has apparently been resolved, the revenue split has yet to be discussed although Cotto has left word that he doesn’t mind getting the smaller piece of the pie.
Pacquiao’s camp wants no less than a 65-35 edge in the revenue-sharing, while Pacquiao trainer Freddie Roach wants a bigger bite–70-30–since the Filipino is the much bigger draw in terms of popularity and pay-per-view appeal.
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Post by Charlie 21er on Jun 24, 2009 18:16:22 GMT -5
I would gladly take 30% of 20million.
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Post by boriblaze1 on Jun 24, 2009 20:06:45 GMT -5
Yea take 30% and give Pacman a beating then yor the super star and will be making more after this fight.
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Post by Paul Magno on Jun 24, 2009 20:13:27 GMT -5
Yea take 30% and give Pacman a beating then yor the super star and will be making more after this fight. or lose, be humiliated by a guy smaller than you and be forced into retirement...
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